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Marleymax
12 days ago
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To shop or not to shop
I'm guilty. I've "shopped" a lot of photos I've taken. Though recently I've limited the amount of photoshop I use on my photos. I find much more enjoyment using only my camera to create a strong photo. Its great to know I focused it right, set everything at the proper f-stop, aperture and iso, etc for the moment. Unless its a photo illustration like stitching a bunch of frames together for a pano, "pano planet" or purposefully illustrating something (like the recent "Pumpkin Mist" illustration I did for Halloween) I don't see the need to doctor the heck out of my photography. What's the point?
How many of you feel the same way? How much digital editing is involved with your photography?
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superdewa
12 days ago
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What does me in is shooting in RAW, and I keep saying I'm going to try going back to JPEG for a while, but now that I shoot in RAW, JPEG kind of scares me. I have to do certain edits in RAW, and then I bring the photo in to photoshop to at least sharpen and resize and switch to sRGB for the web, and it's hard to keep myself from making more than the basic RAW edits and to keep myself from doing slight curves adjustments or other fixes in photoshop as long as I'm there. My camera's also pretty noisy at high ISO levels, so I have to go into photoshop to run noiseware on quite a few.
I'm not saying those things are wrong, at all. I generally love the little boost or pop the adjustments give to my photos, and in the long run, I think I'd keep them. There's probably not much I do that either my camera wouldn't do on the right settings or I wouldn't do to film in a real darkroom. But I am also aware that perhaps I'd be a better photographer if I didn't know I could fiddle afterwards, so maybe I need to set myself a short JPEG Challenge or have JPEG Thursdays or something like that.
But maybe not. Afterall, even in my camera I might change the "vivid" settings or amount of in-camera sharpening to match my subject matter -- landscape, portrait, etc.
Good question and one I think about often.
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Marleymax
12 days ago
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I agree Superd. I found I was relying on knowing I can always "fix" it in photoshop. And I still do sharpen my photos, resize and crop in on areas. But recently I've been really concentrating on the proper ways to go about shooting the photos from the start. I shoot everything in RAW and really like your idea of a "JPEG Day" from time to time. Yeah, I'd probably change my camera settings as well but I'm striving to limit the amount of digital editing I do to my photos. I find it enables me to concentrate more on my picture taking out in the field. I may take 3-4 shots of the same photo using different settings but this gets me more familiar with my camera in the process. Honestly, its a great feeling when I open a RAW photo in photoshop, click "default" to "auto" and A) See no change to mention or B) Really like my original (default) settings TONS better than what the software thinks it should be.
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tufteach
12 days ago
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Ditto, on what superd says! I have been thinking the same thing--perhaps shoo ting in RAW and jpeg and doing my processing thing and then comparing the two. I think I also need to challenge myself to do what you are doing Marley--try to use all correct settings and end up with a shot that needs no editing.
P.S. I love the creativity PhotoShop allows and will not give up on using it to bring those images I see in my head to life! My artistic outlet!
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Willtastic
12 days ago
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I consider my computer just another tool in the process of making art, so yes I Photoshop nearly every good photo I take.
However, to quote God from Futurama, "If you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all." That's the motto I apply to just about every photoshop I do.
For example, there's this photo in my recent photostream (check out the other 3 too!):
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2741/407 … 7d69_b.jpg
The original is here:
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2756/408 … 9684_b.jpg
I felt that the sheet looked too white and pristine, her hair was too bright pink and distracting, and her skin was too bright and warm for such a dim and dark photo. I selectively desaturated her hair, desaturated her body to a lesser extent, lowered the brightness of everything in that area, and then selectively lowered the brightness even further on certain areas of the sheet. If I felt up to it I might even try to photoshop some dirt onto the sheet since it still looks pretty clean. I also kind of liked in the end how she blended in with the scene. I wanted a dead look and she looked like she had been there for a while and was a part of it.
So, I don't do the whole "HDR UNTIL IT GLOWS" thing, but I definitely photoshop everything. I'm actually curious if you guys think the changes above were warranted or if I should have just left the photo alone.
EDIT: btw, no I didn't finish removing that graffiti but that's because I got it to a point where I felt it was no longer obnoxious. I don't think the average viewer would be disturbed by it without knowing what the original looks like.
EDIT2: Funny, now that I look at these so much later I'm considering reshopping it again
Anyway I just wanted to add that photoshopping my photos also gives me a sense of accomplishment as an artist. A lot of people that I know will punch some random numbers into their camera or slap in aperture priority and take whatever comes out looking decent, and while I won't claim they aren't artists (these are skilled people!) I will say that's kind of like driving a train. You're the pilot keeping everything going smooth, but you're on tracks. When I take a photo I have visions that I feel very strongly about, and my goal is to properly convey those visions in the form of a photograph.
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Marleymax
12 days ago
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I like this attitude and approach Will. As you've seen I've shopped a lot of photos and still do - like this blk and white horse below. I also consider it a form of art and the best shopped photos are as you say – the ones that go unnoticed or just the opposite – ultra deliberate. I've done a few HDRs but don't make them ultra glowing. Instead I try to use it to pull more details from the shadow and highlight areas.
As you can tell I'm kinda on the fence. I enjoy challenging myself by taking a daytime photo and trying to make it look like a night time photo (see photo manipulation thread). And I consider this more of a type of art. Though in the end it still looks better to me as an actual photo using a tripod and a long exposure. So then I'll challenge myself to take "correct" photos and seriously limit the amount of editing to the bare minimum – only sharpening.
Just trying to get an idea of how much people digitally edit their photos these days. I think that editing you did really enhanced the photo. What a great photo btw. The lights and darks are wonderful! Thanks for you post!
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superdewa
12 days ago
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Fantastic photo, Will! I think your changes were warranted for the look you were going for, especially in the background. I was surprised at first that you even wanted to remove the graffiti, because it fits the theme, but I think lightening it the way you did was perfect. I wouldn't mind seeing just a little more color in her hair and perhaps a slight bit more of that beautiful lighting on her body, but that's my own artistic sensibility, and I can see why you made the decisions you did.
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Willtastic
11 days ago
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Thanks guys 
@Marley: I saw those in the photo manipulation thread. I always read it but never post. I do have a lot of fun editing my photos to hell and back, but I never post those or add them to my portfolio if they're the extreme sort. To me that's beyond photography and getting closer to graphic design, which is fine and all but not what I want to do. The only exception would obviously be black and whites, since photos aren't naturally that way 
@Super: Yeah, the thing with the graffiti was every time I opened the photo my eyes would get caught by that spiral. After getting rid of most of that outer band I felt that it was no longer distracting, so that's why I stopped.
Funny you want more color and lighting since that's exactly what I took out in Photoshop 
EDIT: Oh, also, that lighting is entirely from my SB-600 laying down on a window sill with no diffuser or anything.
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superdewa
11 days ago
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I wouldn't put all the light and color back. Maybe just a tad on her hair and skin --not as bright as it was, and none on the background. But once again, that's just me. I think I'd be going more for the sleeping beauty look than the dead look, so maybe it figures!
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tufteach
11 days ago
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Wow, Will, you are talented! I like the shopped version. I may have left more graffiti though I do understand the distraction. I like the mood of the piece so I agree with taking out the light that you did. The bright version would not enhance that mood.
I wish you would post more, Will. How about if we start an artistic manipulation thread?
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Marleymax
11 days ago
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Again Will, I think you've got some very wonderful photos there. Very, very well done. I wonder how they'd look as warm black and whites too. Keep up the talent and as Tufteach said - post some others more often. Thanks for sharing.
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Willtastic
11 days ago
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@Tuft: Thanks! There's 3 more from that shoot on my Flickr, here's a link to the set: http://www.flickr.com/photos/vwllss/set … 606816623/
@Marley: I don't think I'd do warm black and whites. If anything I'd do cold ones. I see a lot of sepia thrown around and people are kind of used to warm black and whites, and I think that a bluish cyanotype tint would give the photos a really cold, harsh feeling that's unexpected
Here's one of them black and white with bluish tint:
And here's the same conversion only with a warmer tint applied:
They both don't look bad. I'm sticking by my bluish statement, but we're different artists ;D If you want to try your own B&W conversion feel free, I think you're a bit more familiar with Photoshop than I am.
Oh and one last comment, I have a strong habit of doing partial desaturations. I would maybe take one of the above B&W's and apply it in a layer over the original with 50% opacity or something like that to give it a certain tinge and wipe out most of the color but still keep it as a color photograph.
EDIT: Looking at them again I do realize the warmer one is much more eye-catching. I feel like it's easier to see details.. if I were to make a cold B&W conversion I might need to raise the exposure a little bit.
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Marleymax
11 days ago
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Hey! Now we're shopping again!
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tufteach
10 days ago
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You have an amazing eye, Will. I ver definitely like your work. Art-in the eye of the beholder, as the infamous "they" say!
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mm
10 days ago
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Will - Pretty cool, and a little creepy (in a good way.) You've got a great eye and even greater friends -- There's no way you would've gotten me on that bed! Not even in a Haz-Mat suit!
I have an old version of Photoshop on our desktop computer, that I rarely get to use. I was introduced to Gimp by you guys. (Thanks, by the way!) So, Gimp has now been on my laptop for a coupla months. I've always been afraid of going too far in post, so I usually try to get the best shot SOOC - and just say that I'm happy with it. (A little procrastination and laziness is involved there, too.) But I find myself embracing levels and curves. I've also used some other effects to make more graphic versions of photos. So, I'm afraid to go too far when I want to keep it a photo, but I'm okay changing it up altogether. Make sense? (Long day.)
Here's an example - I'll post others on the edit/manip thread :
This is my daughter. She loves this image. Actually, I do, too. It makes me smile. It's currently the desktop of my computer screen. Something about it reminds me of 80's awesomeness. Just me? (By the way, I don't post a whole lot b/c my kids are the subjects for most of my photos. I'm a tad weird yet about putting them on the 'net. Baby-steps, right?)
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tufteach
10 days ago
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I like this, mm! I like doing this type of thing of my grandkids. Fun!
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superdewa
10 days ago
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I Love it mm! Definitely an '80s feel to it, but modern too.
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